Collins is still piqued over the Destiel kerfuffle on Twitter.
Gif'ed version with subtitles on tumblr, if you're on a thing that hates Flash.
[Otherwise irrelevant note: "Миша" is how you spell Misha in Cyrillic. Just in case you ever need that.]
He's past being pissed off, and has progressed into exasperated. He's been doing this for a few months now, sitting up there on a stage with a microphone and saying, "Well, this here is what I'm doing with this character," and apparently there are still people going, "No, you aren't!" He can't be doing that badly -- five kabillion people on tumblr have noticed, and getting a coherent argument out of that lot is like herding a load of schizophrenic tweaker cats. There are only so many ways you can debate with someone who keeps telling you what your own opinion is, and refuses to listen to what you actually say.
On a psycholinguistic note, Collins specifically says 'whether it will ever be consummated...' yadda yadda yadda. He does not think it is a question of whether this is the sort of relationship that might wind up in bed; the question is merely whether it will. The rest of the sentence also suggests that he thinks the main deciding factor is whether or not they'd be allowed to air that if they tried it, not whether it's plausible or whether he and Ackles would turn in an appropriate performance.
[I would also like to point out that nobody is bothering to stop him. I am trying to imagine what would happen if they got some sort of order from on high to start making their performances "less homoerotic". I do not think that would work as intended -- my guess is probably a gag reel full of snogging, pretend or otherwise. They also can't fire him for opening his mouth, because 1) that would tank their show right after one of their most popular season premieres in years, an 2) then there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for Collins to retain any semblance of diplomacy when talking about any of this story stuff or his personal theory on what exactly made them decide he was more trouble than he was worth. He does his social activism because he already has opinions, not the other way around.]
There are apparently people who are criticizing the writers for not going ahead and just penning the explicit resolution of the romance, network stuffed shirts be damned. Aside from the fact that it doesn't quite work that way, I personally think that accusations of "queerbaiting" are a little far. The "will they/won't they" isn't actually the issue here. If that's all it took to get you in trouble, then Mulder and Scully should have been excoriated for "straightbaiting" for over a decade. The problem is when you pretend you're writing "will they/won't they" when you're actually writing "will they/HAHAHAHA of course they won't, that's stupid, ewww gay people". I don't get the feeling the running production crew is actually doing that. At worst I think they're jammed up at "will they/will the network shut us down if we try". They're making this about as explicit as they dare -- which is a social problem larger than they are, and, while it's something they should be aware of, it's not their fault, and they may not be able to fix it themselves.
Regardless, I'd also argue that the relationship has been handled (by the writers) with a remarkable amount of respect. It's generally not played for laughs, or at least no more than things like Sam and Dean dying repeatedly. In this particular character arc, Dean is the one who'd be considered the Everyman; stereotypically, it would be his end of the plot that involved phrases like "freaking out" and "coming to terms with", and he'd be taking all the ribbing about being "gay" or "a girl".
Dean has never once flipped out over the depth or direction of his feelings for Cas. He's never shown any indications of thinking that they "shouldn't" be that close, or expressed any anxiety that it's making him say or do things that he wouldn't otherwise have done. Cas had misgivings only at the very beginning, when the other angels were still telling him that feeling anything at all was a bad sign. Once he made the choice to go with Dean, it became a non-issue.
Both Castiel and Dean cop snark of the 'go ask your boyfriend' variety, mainly from antagonists like Crowley. Neither one ever reacts to it -- they don't find the idea inherently insulting or inappropriate. Nor do they bother commenting on it when it comes from people like Balthazar or Meg, who are technically helping them. At minimum, the two of them don't care if people think they're romantically involved. Dean has also caught some commentary from Sam and Bobby, clearly recognizing that his relationship with Cas is extremely important to him, and has never tried to downplay whatever problems they were worried about.
Neither of them has ever really felt the need to explain or defend their choice to stick close together. Cas is willing to scupper his plans for the war in Heaven to keep Crowley and Fate away from the brothers, and is specifically willing to give Dean up in order to keep the monsters of Purgatory away from him. Dean is not leaving Purgatory without Cas because he isn't, full stop. The other characters generally recognize this; Sam never questions why Dean keeps desperately trying to defend Cas while Cas' behavior becomes increasingly erratic in season six, although he does eventually get rather aggravated at it. He questions the wisdom of Dean continuing to pray to Cas nightly before the Purgatory gates are opened, but there's no indication he ever questioned why Dean was carting around Cas' trenchcoat afterwards. People attached to the Winchester camp treat their bond as a fait accompli.
And finally, it is treated as a genuine, valid, intimate relationship. Dean, who is notorious for having all kinds of emotions and opting to cram them deep down inside and then drink until they turn into some sort of terrible whiskey-soaked bezoars rather than burden anyone else with the knowledge that he has them, will actually talk feelings with Cas. There's more interaction between the two of them than the audience sees -- at one point Dean specifically refers to an unseen conversation they had about "personal space", which was apparently calm and reasonable enough that when he reminds Cas, Cas simply steps back and apologizes without giving his usual downcast I've-upset-Dean expression. Later on, Dean actually starts a bunch of those dialogues, most notably when Cas is sobering up after discovering that God is the biggest of all deadbeat dads, and then after Purgatory when Cas explains why he's been reluctant to go back up and check on Heaven.
This is all stuff written out explicitly in the scripts. If nothing else, you do have to give them some credit for expressing the changing gender norms of the generation the actors are actually in, rather than the ancient stuffed shirts who technically hold all the money. Traditionally, men are held to express their profound emotional bonds by getting obnoxiously drunk in public and choosing to root for the same professional sports team(s). These two do a lot of things that would typically be used to express women being emotionally engaged with one another, even though in many other respects their personalities appear to be extremely dude-like.
Gif'ed version with subtitles on tumblr, if you're on a thing that hates Flash.
[Otherwise irrelevant note: "Миша" is how you spell Misha in Cyrillic. Just in case you ever need that.]
He's past being pissed off, and has progressed into exasperated. He's been doing this for a few months now, sitting up there on a stage with a microphone and saying, "Well, this here is what I'm doing with this character," and apparently there are still people going, "No, you aren't!" He can't be doing that badly -- five kabillion people on tumblr have noticed, and getting a coherent argument out of that lot is like herding a load of schizophrenic tweaker cats. There are only so many ways you can debate with someone who keeps telling you what your own opinion is, and refuses to listen to what you actually say.
On a psycholinguistic note, Collins specifically says 'whether it will ever be consummated...' yadda yadda yadda. He does not think it is a question of whether this is the sort of relationship that might wind up in bed; the question is merely whether it will. The rest of the sentence also suggests that he thinks the main deciding factor is whether or not they'd be allowed to air that if they tried it, not whether it's plausible or whether he and Ackles would turn in an appropriate performance.
[I would also like to point out that nobody is bothering to stop him. I am trying to imagine what would happen if they got some sort of order from on high to start making their performances "less homoerotic". I do not think that would work as intended -- my guess is probably a gag reel full of snogging, pretend or otherwise. They also can't fire him for opening his mouth, because 1) that would tank their show right after one of their most popular season premieres in years, an 2) then there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for Collins to retain any semblance of diplomacy when talking about any of this story stuff or his personal theory on what exactly made them decide he was more trouble than he was worth. He does his social activism because he already has opinions, not the other way around.]
There are apparently people who are criticizing the writers for not going ahead and just penning the explicit resolution of the romance, network stuffed shirts be damned. Aside from the fact that it doesn't quite work that way, I personally think that accusations of "queerbaiting" are a little far. The "will they/won't they" isn't actually the issue here. If that's all it took to get you in trouble, then Mulder and Scully should have been excoriated for "straightbaiting" for over a decade. The problem is when you pretend you're writing "will they/won't they" when you're actually writing "will they/HAHAHAHA of course they won't, that's stupid, ewww gay people". I don't get the feeling the running production crew is actually doing that. At worst I think they're jammed up at "will they/will the network shut us down if we try". They're making this about as explicit as they dare -- which is a social problem larger than they are, and, while it's something they should be aware of, it's not their fault, and they may not be able to fix it themselves.
Regardless, I'd also argue that the relationship has been handled (by the writers) with a remarkable amount of respect. It's generally not played for laughs, or at least no more than things like Sam and Dean dying repeatedly. In this particular character arc, Dean is the one who'd be considered the Everyman; stereotypically, it would be his end of the plot that involved phrases like "freaking out" and "coming to terms with", and he'd be taking all the ribbing about being "gay" or "a girl".
Dean has never once flipped out over the depth or direction of his feelings for Cas. He's never shown any indications of thinking that they "shouldn't" be that close, or expressed any anxiety that it's making him say or do things that he wouldn't otherwise have done. Cas had misgivings only at the very beginning, when the other angels were still telling him that feeling anything at all was a bad sign. Once he made the choice to go with Dean, it became a non-issue.
Both Castiel and Dean cop snark of the 'go ask your boyfriend' variety, mainly from antagonists like Crowley. Neither one ever reacts to it -- they don't find the idea inherently insulting or inappropriate. Nor do they bother commenting on it when it comes from people like Balthazar or Meg, who are technically helping them. At minimum, the two of them don't care if people think they're romantically involved. Dean has also caught some commentary from Sam and Bobby, clearly recognizing that his relationship with Cas is extremely important to him, and has never tried to downplay whatever problems they were worried about.
Neither of them has ever really felt the need to explain or defend their choice to stick close together. Cas is willing to scupper his plans for the war in Heaven to keep Crowley and Fate away from the brothers, and is specifically willing to give Dean up in order to keep the monsters of Purgatory away from him. Dean is not leaving Purgatory without Cas because he isn't, full stop. The other characters generally recognize this; Sam never questions why Dean keeps desperately trying to defend Cas while Cas' behavior becomes increasingly erratic in season six, although he does eventually get rather aggravated at it. He questions the wisdom of Dean continuing to pray to Cas nightly before the Purgatory gates are opened, but there's no indication he ever questioned why Dean was carting around Cas' trenchcoat afterwards. People attached to the Winchester camp treat their bond as a fait accompli.
And finally, it is treated as a genuine, valid, intimate relationship. Dean, who is notorious for having all kinds of emotions and opting to cram them deep down inside and then drink until they turn into some sort of terrible whiskey-soaked bezoars rather than burden anyone else with the knowledge that he has them, will actually talk feelings with Cas. There's more interaction between the two of them than the audience sees -- at one point Dean specifically refers to an unseen conversation they had about "personal space", which was apparently calm and reasonable enough that when he reminds Cas, Cas simply steps back and apologizes without giving his usual downcast I've-upset-Dean expression. Later on, Dean actually starts a bunch of those dialogues, most notably when Cas is sobering up after discovering that God is the biggest of all deadbeat dads, and then after Purgatory when Cas explains why he's been reluctant to go back up and check on Heaven.
This is all stuff written out explicitly in the scripts. If nothing else, you do have to give them some credit for expressing the changing gender norms of the generation the actors are actually in, rather than the ancient stuffed shirts who technically hold all the money. Traditionally, men are held to express their profound emotional bonds by getting obnoxiously drunk in public and choosing to root for the same professional sports team(s). These two do a lot of things that would typically be used to express women being emotionally engaged with one another, even though in many other respects their personalities appear to be extremely dude-like.
Comments
Post a Comment